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Ass to mouth v. rimming
ME Ballerina Reclining
emeraldmystique wrote in askthekinksters
I read a book recently that warned against going from anal sex to vaginal sex or oral sex. But then right after that, gave advice on rimming.

What is the difference between going ass-to-mouth and rimming?
Is she contradicting herself or have I missed something?

The difference is that your tongue isn't 6 inches long, and thus is a lot less likely to encounter as much fecal matter as anal penetration will.

Double-dipping means getting poo in your vagina, and sucking a dick that was just in someone's ass is eating poo. Both is a disease vector.


I would think it's warning against going from anal (whether that's oral or penetrative sex) to vaginal sex, in order to avoid giving said vagina an infection.

Rimming is licking the anus. You can wash your anus pretty well and thus reduce the risk of coming in contact with fecal matter or any diseases the person may have.

You can't really clean your rectum. You can clean it out, but there will still be trace amounts of fecal matter other diseases the person may have.

It would be a similar difference between licking an anus and sticking your finger in an ass and then sucking the finger.

It's possible to rim someone through a dental dam. Speaking as a former sex ed worker, I don't, and even the PHNs who did our training seemed to think it was a bit of a joke which nobody actually did in practice.

But using one would make it possible to rim someone without any significant risk of transmission of much of anything.

(Deleted comment)
Thank you for that image. Ugh!

I and a friend actually tried. It's doable, sort of.

I get flamed for this every time, but I still go ass-to-mouth.

gromm

2009-08-13 08:28 pm (UTC)

I have to wonder how many of the responders here have actually done ass-to-mouth.

*I* have.

No, I haven't gotten sick from it. Ever.

The way I rim someone is also not exactly "licking the person's anus". It feels way, way, *way* better to get tongue-fucked in the ass. In fact, that's how I was introduced to the practice in the first place. It's the entire reason I do it that way in the first place. If my ex-girlfriend just sort of licked my ass I'm sure I wouldn't have bothered to return the favour, nevermind doing it enthusiastically to every partner I've had since.

As for not being able to clean your rectum, I beg to differ. A proper colonic enema (like, 2 litres or more) does an excellent job of cleaning your rectum - And about 2/3 of your large intestine for that matter. Once the operation is done, the results are quite satisfactory and the taste is clean and refreshing. To begin with, your rectum at any given moment in time is generally cleaner than your hands (why do you *think* they tell you to wash them frequently?!) and most certainly cleaner than your *keyboard*, which generally qualifies as a cradle of filth. Yet most people think nothing of eating finger foods immediately after touching their keyboards.

Also, you're not going to give yourself a disease. Do you get sick again after having a cold? No, sorry, diseases don't work that way. You *can* get a vaginal infection going from ass to pussy however, and you *can* get an infection if you get poo in a cut on your hand (or in your mouth), but that's a different beast from introducing the (small number of) bacteria that's into your gut, back into your gut.

But the one buggering you should wear a condom. While you can't give yourself HIV (or herpes, or gonnohrea, or...), someone else can.

The reason you don't always get sick from ingesting bacteria from your gut isn't because you are "introducing the (small number of) bacteria that's into your gut, back into your gut".

It's because your stomach is filled with acid designed to keep your intestines safe from germs in your food and environment by killing them. Not everyone's stomach is as good at that, children, the elderly, people with a compromised immunesystem and just your basic sufferers from heartburn. Pop an anti-acid or a cup of yoghurt and your main line of defence has some mayor holes.

And it only takes one bad germ, lower intestine germs are not harmless, they are one of the mayor sources of food poisoning. Natural in one place doesn't mean natural in another.

But by all means take the risk if you are willing, just don't minimise it in your mind or for other people with incomplete information.

~Iflie

Pop an anti-acid or a cup of yoghurt and your main line of defence has some mayor holes.

Not to mention the tiny, otherwise imperceptible breaks in the skin of your mouth that most of us carry around without knowing it. those can give infection a straight line into your bloodstream.

Not that gromm shouldn't go right ahead and chow down if that's what he wants, but everybody should be aware of the risks involved, which are non-trivial.

Re: I get flamed for this every time, but I still go ass-to-mouth.

suitablyemoname

2009-08-13 09:33 pm (UTC)

Also, you're not going to give yourself a disease. Do you get sick again after having a cold? No, sorry, diseases don't work that way.

You know, there's a non-trivial number of people who would pay good money for video of some dude tongue-fucking himself. Most of us prefer to rim other people, though. (And even then, that isn't how bacterial transmission works. The fact that bacteria turn up in your poop doesn't mean you're immune to them.)

Edited at 2009-08-13 09:34 pm (UTC)

Re: I get flamed for this every time, but I still go ass-to-mouth.

angelus7988

2009-08-16 07:11 am (UTC)

Also, you're not going to give yourself a disease. Do you get sick again after having a cold? No, sorry, diseases don't work that way. You *can* get a vaginal infection going from ass to pussy however, and you *can* get an infection if you get poo in a cut on your hand (or in your mouth), but that's a different beast from introducing the (small number of) bacteria that's into your gut, back into your gut.

I take it someone didn't do so well in high school biology, huh?

It's a matter of opinion, but I think a lot of literature might be overstating the dangers of rimming and AtM. Heck, there are scat lovers out there who eat shit without having any health problems, although a few do once in a while. I think the probability goes up the more bacteria you get. Still, the scant possibility remains, so they want to err on the side of caution for your health's sake.

Do you shit rainbows?
Because that's awesome.
:)

Nah, I just have this gay friend that likes to lay under a rimchair and eat my shit.

       Fecal matter carries e. coli, it carries meningitis, and many many other diseases. You can die from them. Or end up permanently brain damaged. However, your risks go up, significantly, when doing this with a stranger, or in a strange place. If you've lived with a person for a month, or been staying at their house off and on for years, you have built up an immunity to the majority of their common germs. It's not 'safe'. But it is 'safer'. My nickel.

K.

So what you're saying is that rimming is more hazardous than going ass to mouth. That's almost what I was trying to say, but thanks!

       Actually, I don't know. But I do know that you're in more danger touching the toilet handle in a strange bathroom, somewhere you've never been, and then rubbing your eye, than you are 'deepening' your exposure to germs you've already encountered. Both are risks, but there's some pretty serious diseases out there that people commonly come into contact with. It's all a matter of antibodies. Previously encountered (and thus presumably survived) germs are 'safer' than new ones.:)

K.

To some degree that's true, but there is a dose factor at work, too; some bugs you may fight off easily in small doses can be oberwheming in a larger dose. That's why you keep cold foods cold; if the bacteria weren't there at all you needn't bother, and just a few aren't a problem, but give them the chance to proliferate and you're in trouble.

*nods* Fair enough. Though, 'high dosage' in this context is like 200 microscopic germs that could all fit in the head of a pin, as compared to...2 or 20. And...as I understand the mechanism, you're more likely to survive a more serious encounter, if you've already built up a little bit of defense/antibodies to the invading germs/bacteria/virii/etc whereas, a relatively mild disease/contaminant that you've never encountered before can kill you real fast, real dead?

K.

Can't help it, I'm a medicine geek

aineotter

2009-08-15 06:36 pm (UTC)

It can't actually carry meningitis, since strictly speaking meningitis is inflmmation of the membranes around the brain (from any cause). You could carry bacteria capable of causing meningitis, though they'd need to find a way into your bloodstream to do so.

...sorry, it's like being an English teacher

Re: Can't help it, I'm a medicine geek

khall

2009-08-15 09:34 pm (UTC)

       *smiles* Fair enough. Though spinal meningitis is actually a virus in the spinal fluid. I thought encephalitis was the swelling of the membranes around the brain? Dunno, you probably know better than I do.

K.

Re: Can't help it, I'm a medicine geek

aineotter

2009-08-15 09:53 pm (UTC)

Encephalitis is inflammation of the brain ('-itis' =inflammation). Meningitis can be spinal, too, since there are the same membranes around the spinal cord. It might be most often viral in humans, there're dozens of possible causes in domestic animals.


I agree with gronn-I think we're all getting a little paranoid. Our bodies process germs and bacteria all the time without becoming ill. Do we really believe every waiter and chef obeys that little sign saying "employees must wash hands before returning to work"?

Be careful-if you're lucky enough to be with someone who enjoys rimming, rinse or wash first. Avoid it if your partner has had any sort of recent illness or stomach upset or if you have any open sores in your mouth. Afterwards, rinse your mouth with an alcohol-based mouthwash like Listerine. Avoid it if you're generally in poor health or weakened by the flu-but really, they even did this on Mythbusters. Not ass-to-mouth specifically, but the "how much bacteria is in your toothbrush" thing.

I take no responsibility for the slashfic "Jamie tops Adam" that somebody will now, no doubt, write.

I agree with gronn-I think we're all getting a little paranoid. Our bodies process germs and bacteria all the time without becoming ill. Do we really believe every waiter and chef obeys that little sign saying "employees must wash hands before returning to work"?

What precisely are your qualifications in epidemology, microbiology or public health? Bacteria doesn't care if you believe in it or not, and thinking or feeling that we're paranoid doesn't mean there's no danger.

Edited at 2009-08-14 02:07 am (UTC)

Dude, pick a different emo fight. I never said I don't believe in bacteria, and I also never said there's absolutely no danger. I'll leave you to read what I actually said, and if you care to respond to that, I'll be happy to continue the discussion :)

You actually said something incredibly ignorant, which is why I pointed it out, quoted it, and identified as objectionable. I'll leave you to reconsider what you actually said, and if you care to retract that, I'll be happy to continue the discussion. :)

He said that not he believes every waiter or chef washes their hands coming out of the bathroom. He would be right. That's not questioning fact or opinion of whether bacteria is dangerous, just questioning whether people wash their hands when they should.

And it's also right that food poisoning causes thousands of deaths a year in the US. Saying there are filthy food service workers all over the place kind of proves the point about the level of risk rather than the reverse.

There are certainly deaths from such infections, most generally in at-risk populations such as the elderly and those with weakened immune systems. Millions of people a year in the US who come in contact with food prepared by waiters and chefs whose hands are, at best, not sterile, without becoming ill or even realizing it. I'm not suggesting we all go around tongue-fucking random asses, but every type of play involves some risk and, statistically speaking, it's probably a greater risk to drive to your date's house than it is to stick your tongue up her ass. As Sylvarthorne has pointed out, unless you're freaking Gene Simmons, you're not likely to get to the rectum anyway.

I'm quite happy with a bit of anal tongue-fucking, but there's a difference between being realistic about the risks and going the other way with dismissing them entirely. And I'm objecting to the latter POV.

I operate in accordance with these guidelines as suggested by drcruel and haven't become ill, nor has my partner -- except that we would never use Listerine while there was wine handy.

>>we would never use Listerine while there was wine handy.

But...but...I've read from at least two reliable internet sources that you should never ever evah play while drinking!

<3

Good thing I don't feel obligated to follow all the rules I find on the internets! :-D

Wow... who would have thought this would be such a hot topic issue? Catfight much?

I think that people just need to take personal hygene into effect, and realize that just as with any sexual act, there is some risk involved, no matter how careful or clean you are. I've never gotten sick from any anal activities, but my patner and I also stress personal hygene. No, we can't be 100% safe, but we try.

Maybe its luck, but I haven't had any strange illnesses or unusual stomach/intestinal problems from my extracirriculars either.

Definitely worth taking into account personal hygiene and health of both partners. The guy who couldn't wash his balls enough to stop giving me back my yeast infection* is not someone I needed sharing his fecal matter with me. However, the girl who showers twice a day and the guy who showers immediately before almost every sex act are people who, were I interested at all in anal-oral-cross contamination, would be candidates.

* After forcing him to shower, just once, with soap, it never happened again. Basic personal hygiene would have stopped that months before.

I think most of the points here have been covered already.

Rimming is generally considered licking the anus, and possibly dipping inside a bit - though if you can get more than the first half-inch of your tongue inside someone's anal sphincter, I'll be suitably impressed. So long as the person has generally good hygiene, you're 99% ok. I engage in this on a semi-regular basis, and I'll be honest for the sake of example - I'm not nearly as cautious about it as drcruel suggests, and I've not gotten sick. I'm also a fairly healthy person.

With anal penetration, there's far more in the way of fecal matter and/or bacteria, even if you've washed yourself out.

Ass to mouth - generally not a good idea for the same reason you should always use a condom for giving head to someone with a disease. Yes, your digestive tract *is* designed to kill all sorts of germs and disease, but as has been stated, there are minute cuts and scrapes inside your mouth you may not even realize are there, and those are entry places for bacteria. I haven't done this because even though I'd be willing to take the risk, I really do not fancy the idea of tasting shit.

Ass to pussy - I've done this at least once or twice. I did end up with a UTI that had lasting effects for a year, and my vag is generally a happy camper with whatever happens to it. The primary concern here is getting bacteria in the urethra, or up the canal and possibly into the uterus. And those kinds of infections are *not* fun - though UTIs can generally be avoided by peeing immediately afterwards. (Fun fact: that's why so many women are taught to pee after sex.)

As with ANY kind of edge play, the individual players must evaluate the risks and choose whether or not to engage in certain behaviors. Is engaging in the activity worth its associated risks?

Since nobody else has mentioned it - why not stuff a condom up someone's bum? then you can tongue-fuck to your heart's content. I have a buddy who cleaned his friend out, stuck a female condom up her bum, and filled it with gummy bears...and ate gummy bears out of her ass for the next two hours, whenever he felt like eating one. But they were in the condom, which was in her butt, which had been cleaned out.

One of the tastier varieties of flavored condoms mightn't be so bad stuck in a pooper, especially if you're tongue-fucking - just leave a little sticking out so you have a barrier for rimming.

And I have to add my own 2 cents on UTIs - there are varying levels. I got a UTI so bad once, I was pissing blood within 12 hours of infection. It was terrifying and painful in the extreme. If you think you have a UTI, get thee some goddamn antibiotics, stat - they get real nasty, real fast. Be careful.

Another good dam is to use a latex or nitrile glove. Cut off the fingers but leave the thumb. Also cut the wrist up to the thumb, so you have a nice, wide dam to spread out and the thumb to insert.

I will never look at gummy bears the same way again =/

ve said in various fashions- it's a balancing risks against pleasures. thing

capybyra

2009-08-17 08:50 pm (UTC)

There's a term used in some circles -risk perception. With the attendant divergence between risk and pleasures at times. Perception's said to be reality too. Well, Reality bats last with alternating pinch hitters called Karma&Darwin. Means?

We can either be ultraparanoid in using a decontamination regimen akin to that which was part of The Andromeda Strain's "Wildfire" facility- including antiseptic suppositories etc- and still get the magic bullet single germ fatality. Or we can spend a debauched abandon of life emulating Moser or the 2girls viddy with real shit- and never get a sniffle.

But the safest bet's that our "shtetrfrk" spends a whole lot more time way sicker for it in reality. And the folks who take a mutual hot soapy shower using a handheld showerhead,thence limit themselves to external licks&kisses are sick way less.

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